In reply to your message of "Wed, 27 Jul 94 22: 28:23 GMT."
             >
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 08:43:09 -0700
From: 

d.A. writes:

> i am sure that if you asked them
> [citizens of the u.s.a.]
> directly "do you live in a democratic society?' the overwhelming majority
> would respond that it lives in the quintessential democracy.

And I am sure that the overwhelming majority doesn't even know what
quintessential means.

--Greg

I wrote:

> One needs schooling
> in democratic principles which for somebody not immersed in it may find
> baffling at first. I found that many of my Hungarian acquaintances didn't
> have much idea about the principles of democracy as practiced, for example,
> in the United States.

Eva Durant answered:

> Yes, I am baffled, too. Is it true, that 60% or less of those eligible
> feel it worthwhile to register their vote, so governments are regularily
> elected by circa 30% of voters?

I wasn't speaking about participation in that democracy. What I had in mind
was legal protection of individual rights. The Constitution of the United
States and its subsequent interpretation ensures wideranging protection of
the individual--according to some people the extent of that protection is in
fact too far-reaching. It is this individual freedom which makes the United
States such an attractive place to live. Continental Europe's history was
such that authoritarian reflexes can still be felt even in democratic
countries, like France or Germany. In Hungary it is even more so. Just
recently I read in a Hungarian newspaper an interview where the interviewer
was talking about too many old faces from the pre-democratic regime in the
new government and the possible return of "wrong reflexes." These practically
automatic, wrong, meaning undemocratic, reflexes have a long tradition in
Hungary and it will take time and schooling to get rid of them. Just one
small example. On the very first day of my last trip to Hungary I was in a
car driven by a relative of mine. Suddenly, two policemen, strategically
standing and waiting for their victims, stopped us and did a spot check at my
poor relative's papers. There was no probable cause. In the United States,
the police don't stop passanger cars traveling in towns or on highways
without probable cause. My relative wasn't speeding, had working headlights,
had all his four wheels on his car, had a registration number and so on and
so forth. When something like that happens in Hungary I get a very bad taste
in my mouth and immediately thank God for my good fortune for living in a
truly free country. Eva Balogh

Imi Bokor by now asked twice why I am against Hungary being nonaligned or
neutral because, according to him:

>it would be quite a natural extension of the neutral band formed
>by switzerland and austria. hungary could do worse than join switzerland,
>austria and sweden as neutral countries.

And yesterday:

>why not for hungary while it seems to work for austria and switzerland?
>roumania is also non-aligned in this dyad, and with hungary there would be
>a contiguous belt of non-aligned/neutral countries.
>
>why do you say that it would be viable or wise?


However much Imi wishes, Hungary is not Switzerland or Sweden; not even
Austria. Hungary until very recently was a satellite country of the Soviet
Union which meant the lack of true independence of action in foreign affairs.
Admittedly, the Soviet Union collapsed and willingly relinquished its empire
inside and outside of the Soviet state. However, that doesn't necessarily
mean that the prostrate state of Russia at the moment will last for ever.
Even the question of democratic development is not necessarily assured in
Russia, Ukraine, Belorussia, just to mention a few of the newly emerged
states. Mr. Zhirinovsky's showing at the polls shows that Russian pride has
been greatly wounded by recent developments, including the loss of Russia's
empire status. If there is a change of regime in Russia which whips up
nationalistic sentiments the first victims will be the former components of
the Soviet state and the second the former satellite countries. That is the
reason why Poland, for example, is so intent on joining NATO.

The formation of the smaller states of East-Central Europe after World War I
was possible only because of the simultaneous collapse of both the Central
Powers and Russia. In case Russia had been on the side of the victors, the
map of East Central Europe would have been very different. (Russia had quite
a list of war aims against her neighbors, by the way.) The same is true about
a possible victory of the Central Powers. Eventually both Germany and Russia
recovered and the rest of the story is well known: East Central Europe, left
alone as a no man's land, became the fighting ground between two great
powers.

Hungary is a small country whose geopolitic position is such that it needs
powerful protectors in case of trouble. Moreover, as I mentioned, Poland is
very keen on NATO membership and so is, the Czech Republic. Hungary's
relation with the Visegrad countries should be fostered and whenever possible
their foreign policy moves should be coordinated instead of playing the lone
odd-man-out which would raise eyebrows in the West and it may result in
Hungary's abandonment later on. Eva Balogh

In reply to your message of "Thu, 28 Jul 94 14: 01:28 EDT."
             >
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 11:34:03 -0700
From: 

> In the United States,
> the police don't stop passanger cars traveling in towns or on highways
> without probable cause.

No, this is not true.  In California, at least, checkpoints to counter
drunken driving are allowed.  All drivers are stopped, only those who
provide probable cause are further detained/searched/tested.

--Greg

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Udv.:
 ORCZAN Zsolt Dr.
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