Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 1057
Copyright (C) HIX
1997-07-14
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: HL: NATO ratification (mind)  154 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: NATO Peticion (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: HL: NATO ratification (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, A.J.Vadasz wrote:
Dear Dr. Vadasz,

Many thanks for let us know about the opinions of people who have
reservations concverning allow our countries to become the member of
the NATO. There are some concerns, what we from here, Hungary, cannot comment,
but there are some facts what we may offer to the US people to take into 
consideration.
>
>While rejoicing in the Madrid results, be aware: the process is not
> complete. The admissions need ratification by member countries. In some it
> can be accomplished by the administration, in others- e.g. the USA-
> parliamentary approval is required.
> 
		{	====	}
 
> I have received a "letter of concern" from Sen. John Warner,(dated June 25)
> who is generally circumspect and a friend of NATO: former Secretary of
> the Navy...	{	====	}

> His main points (see also press reports):
> 
		{	======	}

> 2"...enormous task of convincing the American people that ..expansion is
> vital to our security interest. (it)..means we will put at risk, life and
> limb. I am not sure that the American people people are willing to make that
> commitment."

If I were an American, I would also taking into consideration, whether I
vote for taking a risk that my child may die because of Hungary or Estonia.
And the first reflection of mine would be: definitely not. But I would
also think about my nation's history, and asked, whether we, Americans
could avoid participating in the 2nd World War, just because we let the
people of the Weimar Republic starve and fall into the arms of Hitler; 
or when we let Hitler come to power instead of intevening and stop Hitler 
to get into power and turn the heart of his nation toward us; or when
we let the Czhech Republic Fall? Did it help this neutrality us,
Americans? Much more American died because of trying to be isolated from the 
world's affairs. 

On the other hand, you fortunately did not loose any American lives, when
you  were strong enough to form NATO and stop Stalin to start the 3rd world
war. 

Only thing what happaned that Stalin made a Cold War against you and
escalating arm race, which, eventually led to the fall of the communist
regime all over the world and brougt freedom to us, but not war.

You did not loose any American lives when you made sure for Mao Ce Tung,
that he is not allowed to take over Kimoj, Macu and Taiwan. They sent 1000
extremely serious warning to you and then ceased down. He was threathening
you only by words and escalating the armament competition but not by starting 
war. You lost American lives in countries whose safety was not guaranteed,
such as in Viet Nam. You lost American lives in the Gulf War, too, but can
you imagine how much more you would have lost if you let the crazy dictator to
carry on his war agains Saudi Arabia or Israel?

> 3"...cost of expansion..and the questionable ability of..former Warsaw Pact
> nations to contribute to the security of the Alliance.

The question is absolutely justified. The former Warsaw Pact countries
definitely cannot contribute to the security of the Alliance in equal
basis. But: if these countries did not join the NATO, earlier or later
they (or some of them) would definitely return to an allien pact, and then
the question would be, whether the Alliance are strong enough to face the
new danger? What would it be good to you, if you made those, who
frankly want to be your friends and alliance, enemy again? Which is less 
costly: to support a weaker alliance or fight with a weak enemy? The
Warsaw Pact - in comparison with the USA - was weak...

> I do not believe
> these nations should be allowed to join NATO until they have the military
> hardware and personnel to "carry their own weight".

You can wait for this, I can assure you... for a long time, until 'these
nations' ... will be able 'to carry their own weight', it is true. BUT:
Are you sure, that if these nations would become strong enough by
their own (or with the help of someone else), they would be your
alliances? Think about the weak Weimar Republic again...
 
It is a very short-sighted thinking. Western Europe (including Germany)
became your frinds, because you brought them out from the poverty and 
consequences of the war, by the Marchall aid; you then help them to stand
up and devbelop to be militarily strong and economically flourishing countries!

Please, LEARN FROM YOUR OWN HISTORY!

You generated the second world war by leaving a part of Europe in a
hopeless, desparate situation; let the injustice and poverty to exists for
almost two decades; and then let these countries fall into the arms of
dictatorships (Hitler, Mussolini from one hand, and Stalin, from the other
hand).

But you STOPED THE THIRD WORLD WAR, because you were generous to those
whom you won against, and made friends and strong alliance your past enemies.
(Germany, Italy, Japan).

Why shan't you do the same with us, Warsaw Pact Countries, who - (not
bacuse we wanted, but becuse our non-elected leaders wanted so) -
used to be your enemies and LOST in the Cold War. Why should you treat us as 
the loosers of the First World War, rather than the lossers of the Second
World War? Do you understand what I mean? You knew exactly sfter the 2nd
World War that the NATIONS of the looser countries WERE NEVER YOUR ENEMY;
and you know exactly, that THE NATIONS OF THE WARSAW PACT COUNTRIES WERE
NEVER YOUR ENEMY. We were just waiting for you as our liberators, who
bring us freedom, safety and happy life. Why should we be punished, just
like the first world war looser nations were punished? Why don't you treat
us as friends?
 
> 4.More on costs:" $27-35 billion, some say more...it is in the best interest
> of both the United States and NATO to proceed cautiously..until Congress and
> other nations' parliaments..have had time to examine and debate these issues.
"

Let me carry on my previous question: which costed more to the American
People: the Marshall Aid or the second World War? I think this is
the proper answer to cost concerns.

Another economic question: which is less costly: to cary on the arm race
or help us to become your natural alliance? You saved lots of money becuse
of the end of the cold war. If you spent the same amount, what you spent
for the arm race, just for 5 years to help us to become equal economic and
military partner of your, you spare much more money in a long-term basis.

> 5. "Majority Leader Lott has assembled a NATO observer group in the Senate
> to consider all of these issues. I am honored to serve ..and look forward to
> the challenges"

It's fine. But please, do not forget about what the history thought. 
 
> I will try to get the list of "NATO observer group" members and will
> distribute. Andy.'

Needless to say, I wanted to convince you that we, (or at least Hungary),
should be taken into the NATO.
> 
> 
> A.J. Vadasz
> 5743 Pignut Mtn. Dr.
> Warrenton VA 20187
> USA T:540 349 1408
> 
Another Andy: Andras Fodor.


> ========================================================================
Dr. Andras Fodor			e-mail: 	
Associate Professor			or:	
Eotvos University			Phone:	+36.1.266.1296
Department of Genetics				+36.1.267.5444 ext. 2348
Budapest, Muzeum krt. 4/A		FAX:	+36.1.266.2694
H-1088 HUNGARY
> ========================================================================
+ - Re: NATO Peticion (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I too appreciate Prof Liptak's efforts, while not necessarily agreeing with
him on specific issues.

What is annoying, though, is that Prof Liptak uses the Hungary list merely
as a notice board for his lobbying efforts and does not engage in discussion
on what is supposed to be a DISCUSSION LIST.

George Antony
> -------------------------------------------
Karen Pedley and George Antony
18 Darley St, Toowong Qld 4066, Australia
Phone/Fax: (+61-7)/(07) 3371-8734

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