Subject: Re: Trianon
From: NFerenc
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 23:35:12 -0500
In article > ,  writes:
>Eva Balogh's short treatise on Trianon should be required reading
for anyone
>interested in 20th century Hungarian history.  Trianon, even after
nearly 75
>years, is weighing heavily on the Hungarian national psyche, and is
the basic
>reason for the bad blood between Hungary and some of her neighbors.
>
>To understand the magnitude of the tragedy that Trianon represents
we have to
>remember that Hungary, whose borders had been practically unchanged
(except
>for temporary occupation) for a thousand years,

i think you are mistaken on that point. when was the first hungarian
border
drawn up? how long was there a turkish occupation? for how long was
there a
separate kingdom of transylvania. from the time of the turkish
occupation
until after world war i there was no sovereign separate hungary. that
alone takes care of a large chunk of the thousand years, and perhaps
pertinently, it takes care of all but seventy odd years of the last
three or
four centuries.

i wonder if you are seriously proposing the redrawing of boundaries
upon the "traditional lines" of four centuries ago. or do you only
wish to do that in the special case of hungary?


d.a.

 (zcapl74 ) wrote:

>        Why do my letters get printed out in this
>magazine so badly?
>

        Karcsi

What software are you using for your internet access?
Your letter which is partially quoted above, looks just fine on

my screen.

If you're software is Windows based, such as "Pipeline" or
"Mosaic", you can use one of the "OPTIONS" submenus to set up
your text output to print text "as is" or "word wrap" or "hide
headers and breaks". Experiment with these options until you
get desireable results.

You may be able to get more help by posting your question to
the newsgroup "news.newusers.questions". Good luck.

Gabe Egri    -    Toronto   -    

Charles wanted to know whether "it [is] possible that a future EU might have
some effect on the Trianon problem?" In my opinion, definitely. I don't think
that there will be any border revisions but by belonging to the same European
Union and having open borders certainly should help the situation.

Eva Balogh

Jews, Kun, Trianon

I am afraid AOL was acting up without me noticing it and my piece yesterday
on the subject of Kun and Trianon ended up garbled; that is while copying it,
the program decided to copy Joe's words instead of mine. However, I guess
everybody could make it out, using some imagination.

Eva Balogh

As soon as I finished my little piece on the "Apostoli hitvallas" suddenly I
realized that the non-Hungarian speaking readers of this list may not realize
what we are talking about exactly. So, I am enclosing the Apostles' Creed in
English:

I believe in God the Father Almighty; Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy
Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary: Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified,
dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he rose again from
the dead: He ascended into heaven. And sitteth on the right hand of God the
Father Almighty: From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost: The holy Catholic Church; the Communion of
Saints: The Forgiveness of sins: The Resurrection of the body: And the Life
everlasting. Amen

Peter Andras Nemenyi says:

I do not subscribe to labeling others' opinion "drivel", since it is
>hoped that the columns of "Hungary" serve to express a diversity of
>respected views.

The problem is that I don't respect these views and I don't find them
respectable. Hence . . .

Further he continues:

>But most of all, I definitely take exception to misinterpretation of
>statements, and to framing Hungary's historical destiny over about a
>thousand years as "Bastion of Western Civilization" an "extremist", or
>historically fleeting viewpoint -- that can be dismissed as "drivel".

Since I have been a frequent contributor to this list, most people know that
I am very careful with my words and I am inclined toward understatement
rather than overstatement. But Mr. Nemenyi's interpretation of "Hungary's
historical destiny over about a thousand years as `Bastion of Western Civiliza
tion'" cannot be described in any other way but sheer drivel.

Further, Mr. Nemenyi says,

>Indeed, readers not bent on hasty and perhaps even malicious
>misinterpretation of my actual statements will discover upon re-
>reading my article that not a single word of mine mentions any
>specific group of any of the above categories.  (It is true that
>newspapers in Hungary, that I quoted, specifically mentioned both
>the Georgian and Armenian nationalities, moreover another
>particular citizenship and/or religion and/or way of life was fingered


Isn't it interesting that the examples given are always Jewish. This time
too, the emphasis was not on Georgian or Armenian nationalities but that
these Georgians and Armenians were Jewish.

When we come to this alleged "re-settlement" of Hungary, which in the past,
according to Mr. Nemenyi, was always unsuccessful, is also sheer drivel. Ever
since the Magyars developed as a distinct nationality with a language of
their own they have been mixing with people they encountered, including the
Slavs of the Pannonian basin. And yes, with the Turks, too. Moreover, since
St. Stephen on, one king after the other have invited "guests," to Hungary
from all over Europe. And the original Hungarian stock became mixed through
intermarriages all through the ages. Hungarians of today are a mixture of all
sorts of ethnic stock, including, yes, Jewish.

Futher drivel is this whole business of some secret negotiations with the
former Soviet Union concerning "re-settlement" of 250,000 people. Jewish, I
am certain. This sounds like utter rubbish to me. As all readers of this list
knows I am not exactly an admirer of Gyula Horn, but for Pete's sake, this
sounds so absurd that it defies description. Moreover, another jab at
Hungarian Jews, Mr. Nemenyi equates the members of SZDSZ with some kind of
Jewish maffia which puts pressure on Gyula Horn (in fact, blackmails him) in
order to allow their coreligionists to settle in Hungary and, undoubtedly,
spoil the purity of Hungarian blood and ruin the country's future. These are
very dangerous thoughts, Mr. Nemenyi!

If Mr. Nemenyi is upset over calling his writing drivel, he should not write
drivel. Until then,

Eva Balogh

Szepessu2meg. Unfortunately I can't come up with the Slovak name of this
village but perhaps Roman Kanala could. However, I checked my 1910 census and
I can add the following to the demography of Szepessu2meg. It was really a
village, its population being 1,300, located in the Iglo "jaras" [a district
smaller than the country] of Szepes [Sepis] county. The county is very close
to the Polish border and it was even in 1910 overwhelmingly Slovak as far as
the population was concerned. There were only 88 Hungarians and 59 Germans in
the village. Most of the inhabitants were Catholic. I am pretty sure it still
exists.

Eva Balogh

On Sun, 18 Dec 1994 18:21:20 -0500 > said:
>As soon as I finished my little piece on the "Apostoli hitvallas" suddenly I
>realized that the non-Hungarian speaking readers of this list may not realize
>what we are talking about exactly. So, I am enclosing the Apostles' Creed in
>English:

--Thank you.  As a an Episcopalian, I recite it weekly.

Just a reminder that Eva Balogh should have addressed her letter of this
subject to somebody else than Peter Nemenyi who hasn't written to this
list quite a while.

Joe Pannon