Aniko':

In Hungary #704 you wrote:

>You know Ferenc, reading the above, one and only thought, comes to mind
>regardless of whom you might have in the past, or will continue to address
>these ongoingly underminding posts to.... "we all come from within" or if
>you prefer, "mindenki magabol indul ki".  Bearing this in mind, I am hoping
>that at least rarely, you will actually stop and think about this wise
>Hungarian Proverb ...  if not consider it's endless implications?
>
>Regards,
>Aniko

What on earth are you trying to say?

Ferenc

Ferenc,

Since Aniko is away for weeks, (she made that clear to all of us) she will
not see your question until she returns from Europe.

You have failed to include in your quote the text to which she replied.
That makes it mighty difficult to see things in context.  Still, I can
tell you the gist of her paragraph:

You are accusing someone with wrong-doings.  Were you the type who is
innocent and cannot be accused of anything, it would never have occurred
to you to blame others.

In other words: you would have PRESUMED the OTHER person as INNOCENT and
refrained from accusing him/her.                            ~~~~~~~~

(You could (should) have figured it out from the included Hungarian motto.)

Now, is it clear?  Simple, too!

Martha




On Sat, 22 Jun 1996, Ferenc Novak wrote:

> Aniko':
>
> In Hungary #704 you wrote:
>
> >You know Ferenc, reading the above, one and only thought, comes to mind
> >regardless of whom you might have in the past, or will continue to address
> >these ongoingly underminding posts to.... "we all come from within" or if
> >you prefer, "mindenki magabol indul ki".  Bearing this in mind, I am hoping
> >that at least rarely, you will actually stop and think about this wise
> >Hungarian Proverb ...  if not consider it's endless implications?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Aniko
>
> What on earth are you trying to say?
>
> Ferenc
>

>
>
>Hello there. I'm looking for some info on clubs in Budapest that
>play lots of dance music, and where I can meet other foreigners
>when I come to Budapest in two weeks. Anyone knows where to look ?
>
>/stefan
>
Once in Budapest look for Budapest Week, an English language weekly that
lists every club and bar for every persuasion. It also lists other things
for foreigners, such as English language films, weekly events, etc. The
Budapest Sun, an excellent English language newspaper, is also available in
central Budapest. Have fun!

M.

At 12:30 AM 6/22/96 -0400, Martha wrote:

>Some of you may recall the anecdotes floating about some people who were
>"ship" doctors, engineers, etc.  These were the ones who suddenly declared
>themselves to be in possession of a degree, while crossing the Atlantic
>Ocean.  That's the reference to the ship.

        I assume most of you heard the Hungarian saying about "people who
come from far away" and "tell long tales." The Ha'ry Ja'nos syndrome! Oh,
yes. And how many "college students" we had suddenly! In Montreal for a
while a bunch of Hungarian "college students" lived in a former convent on
St. Antoine Street. One day I went down to the cafeteria and a friend tells
me that a classmate of mine from ELTE just arrived. Oh, how nice! She leads
me to an absolute stranger! In those days we all knew each other because the
classes were not that big. Even if you didn't know the name you knew the
face. He did look embarrassed and I didn't have the heart to tell that he
was no classmate of mine.

        Eva Balogh

At 11:41 PM 6/21/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak rote:
>Andras Kornai writes in Hungary #704:

>>For example, when a leading light of FORUM at the time, Istvan Csorna,
>called
>>the Hungarian president "Szovjetpartizanarpibacsi" (check out FORUM 796, Dec
>>24 1992), what could one do? It is hard to translate the expression not
>>because it is, strictly speaking, ungrammatical in the original Hungarian
>(it
>>is, but any speaker of Hungarian understands what is meant, just as any any
>>speaker of English would understand "me much hungry you me food get") but
>>because in the lengthy glossing process the bloodcurling awfulness of the
>>original is entirely lost.
>
>Well, maybe we can find it, bloodcurling awfulness and all.  I would like, if
>I may, help out our Andras by translating the term that gave him so much
>trouble he needed two whole paragraphs to describe:
>
>"" ==> "Sovietpartisanunclearpi"
>
>i.e. Soviet partisan uncle Arpi (Arpad Goncz, elected by Parliament as
>president of Hungary, who likes to brag of his WW2 partisan/guerilla
>credentials)
>
>That wasn't difficult, was it, Andras?  Or should I say "me translate you no
>can" ;-)

        I assume Ferenc is objecting to Andras's description of this
so-called word as "bloodcurling." Let me try to explain Andras's reaction.
Arpad Go:ncz, president of the republic, is a man in his seventies. I read a
series of interviews with him which were aired on the radio and later put
into book form. I am very impressed with Arpad Go:ncz. He is a man of deep
democratic convictions and his life has been accordingly not a bowl of
roses. In 1944 he took part in the small anti-German resistance movement.
After the war, he was a member of the Smallholders' Party and was the
secretary of Bela Kovacs, secretary of the party. Bela Kovacs was later
arrested by the communists and ended up in the Soviet Union as a prisoner.
Not surprisingly his young secretary's career was also ruined. He worked as
an ordinary worker (although he had a law degree) and eventually he managed
to get an office job in a company dealing with soil testing. During the
revolution of 1956 he again became politically active (Bela Kovacs was in
Imre Nagy's government) and after its failure he was arrested and condemned
to death. His sentence was eventually changed to life in prison but in the
early sixties, during the general amnesty, he regained his freedom. In jail,
he worked as a translator and after the sentence he continued doing
translations and eventually became a writer, writing his own plays.

        Calling a man like Arpad Go:ncz as "Szovjetpartizanarpibacsi" is, if
not bloodcurling, certainly very low. How can anyone of call a man whose
whole life was spent opposing the soviet system "soviet" anything? And what
about the "partisan" part? Fighting against the Germans should not be the
object of scorn! I think this is what Andras was trying to say.

        Eva Balogh

At 08:11 AM 6/22/96 -0700, Eva Balogh  wrote:

>        Calling a man like Arpad Go:ncz as "Szovjetpartizanarpibacsi" is, if
>not bloodcurling, certainly very low. How can anyone of call a man whose
>whole life was spent opposing the soviet system "soviet" anything? And what
>about the "partisan" part? Fighting against the Germans should not be the
>object of scorn! I think this is what Andras was trying to say.
>

This maybe the essence of the problem (from where I sit). Some people would
like to condemn those who fought German Nazis and glorify Szalasi instead.

Gabor D. Farkas

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Felad=F3 :  [Sweden]
> T=E9mak=F6r: Clubs in Budapest?? ( 5 sor )
> Id=F5pont: Fri Jun 21 23:24:33 EDT 1996 HUNGARY #706
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>=20
> Hello there. =CDm looking for some info on clubs in Budapest that
> play lots of dance music, and where I can meet other foreigners
> when I come to Budapest in two weeks. Anyone knows where to look ?
>=20
> /stefan

Check out Budapest Week once there, an exellent English language guide to=
=20
clubs, bars, etc. for all persuasions in Budapest. They also list all=20
activities, English language films, etc. Have fun!

Anna M.