Dear Joe;

At 01:39 PM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:

>I've always been disappointed at not seeing really nice flower gardens in
>Hungary.  Given Hungary's recent history I can understand that flower
>gardens were not a high priority.  But still...  I do remember seeing a nice
>garden on Gallert Hill in Budapest and one lovely flower garden in Pecs.
>That one was part of the priests house next to that hugh church in downtown
>Pecs.  Unfortunately it's not open to the public, as we found out on our
>last visit.  We were diplomatically shooed out.

Hmmm, I remember seeing some lovely gardens on the Tihany peninsula near the ol
d
 church.  That is still one of my favorite memories, seeing roses and marigolds
 blooming in a golden afternoon at the end of October.  It was the only part of
 the day in which it wasn't raining at the time, so the flowers really stood
 out.

O>
>When I'm not working, or arguing with someone on this newsgroup, I'm out in
>my perennial flower gardens (I have five of them, plus a rockery) or
>vegetable garden.
>
>If you're a gardener, or are interested in looking at pictures of
>flowers/gardens, I've posted 4 images to "alt.binaries.pictures.gardens"
>today.  I'll be posting images tomorrow as well.  If you know how to access
>binary images you might enjoy my post.
>
>Joe Szalai
>
>
Thanks for the information about the pictures, considering I am now replanting
 and seriously rearranging my own garden after transplanting a 20' tall redwood
 into it (an event I will not likely repeat in the rest of this lifetime, as th
e
 situation ended up another for the "humorous stories" collection...). It's
 going to be awhile before half the garden recovers from the ordeal.  However
 the redwood is doing nicely, the artemisia that got reduced to one-tenth its
 spread and the Europsys that got reduced to one-fourth are both coming back,
 and the four redwoods and pines we planted on the other side of the wall where
 the city decided to expand the expressway are doing nicely also.

Also the planting contractor and all the city officials have recovered from the
 event too, at this point, although I'm not sure about the planter's power
 digger.  Well, when his pick-axe bounced and took him with it into the north
 fence, the situation called for something more powerful. It was either that or
 dynamite and the city wouldn't let me use explosives... I did warn him about
 the nature of the "soil" in that section of garden...  We did get him out of
 the way just before the crane operator dropped the tree where he'd been
 standing so things weren't as bad as they could have been. The crane operator
 had been having trouble seeing where he was since the dratted crate the tree
 was in was taller and broader than the contractor (he was a rather short
 Mexican American).

Anyhow, since I can't yet move to the mountain forests, I'm gradually creating
 one here.  It does a wonderful job of both hiding the expressway and my
 husband's amateur radio antennas...  The tree was an early birthday present fo
r
 him.

If more than one person is interested in a humorous story about how _not_ to
 plant or transplant a full-sized tree in a townhouse garden, let me know and
 I'll post it. Otherwise I'll send individual e-mail.


Cecilia

N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

Joe Szalai ) wrote:
: Hungary.  Given Hungary's recent history I can understand that flower
: gardens were not a high priority.  But still...  I do remember seeing a nice
: garden on Gallert Hill in Budapest and one lovely flower garden in Pecs.

: Joe Szalai

My main hobby gardening interest is in peppers more than flowers so I
have about twenty varieties producing madly here in Atlanta. Included are
many Hungarian types started from seed saved during a vacation in
Budapest last October. Most of the varieties are sweet, red and very
prolific. Examples include Edes, Eros, Pritamin, Kalosci, Mackskapiros
and Karmen.

Anybody know a source in Hungary for mail order seeds?

Steve Tischer

fax:404-874-4169

>=======================================================
>Felado :  [United States]
>Temakor: Re: *** HUNGARY *** #789 ( 75 sor )
>Idopont: Mon Sep 16 21:18:48 EDT 1996 HUNGARY #792
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Writes Ferenc:
>
>I hope this Rodolfo was not the famous Hungarian circus conjurer who could
>pull
>rabbits out of his hat and do all kinds of other tricks? :-)  Sandor's memoir
>seems
>a bit shaky in its historical grounding:
>
>1.  In 1945 Hungary was not yet a republic, so of course the presidency could
>    not have been established.  It happened in 1946.
>
>2.  Mindszenty was not a cardinal in 1945.  Seredi was.  He (Seredi) died in
>that
>    year, and Mindszenty was elevated in 1946.
>
>Perhaps Sandor wrote these memoirs at a later time and his facts as well as
>his
>dates were adjusted for some reason other than historical accuracy.  I would
>be
>very interested to see any corroborative evidence of this alleged encounter.
>
>Anyway, this anecdote adds nothing to the ongoing discussion on the
>Cardinal's
>address to the nation 11 (or 10) years later.  While he may have (rightly)
>resented the taking of Church property without compensation after the war, in
>
>1956 he did not demand the return of church lands.  He may have said
>something
>about returning the nationalized schools and the houses of religious orders,
>but
>that would not have been a radical demand.  In fact, such restitution is now
>taking place.
>===========================================================================
============

You are indeed right, that epizode took place not in 1945,but in 1946. But
after pointing this out, you should have stopped, because your other remarks
were totally irrelevant and in bad taste.

Your flippant remarks about Rodolfo were totally uncalled for. He was the
press attache at the Italian embassy, and during his stay in Hungary he
unselfishly did more to support resistance, than you ever could imagine.

The only reason I quoted that episode was because of the ongoing discussion
about the Cardinal.It was by no means to be critical of him, as a matter of
fact, in my memoirs I paid a great deal of tribute to his valiant demeanor
against the communist government.

Szegedy Sandor
>

A new CD-ROM series is being issued in Hungary under the direction of Dr
Gyula Laszlo: "Enciklopedia Humana Hungarica" . The series is on the
history of the Carpathian basin.
The titles are:
1) The avar age in the carpathian basin 567-895
2) "Emese alma" The Hungarian ancient history and the organization of the
Hungarian state to 1038.
3) The Arpad house kings after St Steven 1038-1301
4) The Anjou and Sigismund age in Hungary 1301-1437
5) The Hunyadis and the Jagello age 1409-1526
6) The Turkish rule in Hungary 1526-1686
7) The Habsburg rule in Hungary 1686-1790
8) The reform age and the compromise 1790-1867
9) The Austro-Hungarian Monarchy 1867-1918
10) Hungarians in the XX century 1900-2000

I have only one at the present time, which is the Emese Alma. It is
supposed to be in Hungarian, English and German. I looked at only the
Hungarian version, so I do not know if all three languages are on one disc
or not. The text is also read, with references shown and recallable from
text markers. It is extensively illustrated and there is a "background
music also. After I play with it more I can give further comment. The brief
review shows a professional approach.
The project is finanaced by the World Bank and the 1100 anniversary
memorial commission. It is obtainable from the Enciklopedia Humana
Egyesulet 1438 Budapest Pf. 435. The ISBN # 963 85552 0 3.

Regards,Jeliko.

The comment from Hungary, in the last issue of Hocipo (a Hungarian satirical
biweekly) The picture shows the Romanian PM handing a paper to Horn, the text
under the picture: "Then we have nothing left and we give you our small
present, your Romanian citizenship papers."

Regards,Jeliko.

Last week I was in Pruhonice (a suburb of Prague) at a nuclear waste
management conference and at one lunch was seated with Czech attendees. The
discussion related to the demise of the Austro-Hungarian empire. They
stated that the oppression of the Slovaks ny the Hungarians before WW I was
so bad that only 5 (repeat five) people knew Slovak. Now if that is the
"memory" of university graduates, guess what is the residual impression of
others. I knew more than five Slovaks in southern Hungary who knew only
Slovak and very limited Hungarian even during WW II after another 25 years
of "oppression". No wonder that there are wild accusations even today, when
people grow up and are educated in grossly false beliefs.

Regards,Jeliko.

--- Forwarded mail from  (Mark Humphreys)

Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 09:55:09 EDT
From:  (Mark Humphreys)
To: 

Subject: Intermediary


Mark Humphreys asked me to forward the following post to the list.

Bob Hosh




Mr. Szekely,

I enjoyed your posting and sharing of the Simone Weil quote with us, however...
it would have been more enjoyable to have simply sent her lovely quote w/o
adding your slightly clumsy foreword by calling my "and my (a)likes" god-
bashers.

Sorry, but I am not necessarily a god-basher. I simply think people who use a
god to bash others are pitiful.

It's sad to listen to people believe they know and can even judge for a god,
when no one can really be sure of its existence. (If you disagree w/ this,
then you will have do explain the role of "having faith!") Although, I feel
having faith can mean "believe w/o thinking or questioning." Many *want* to
believe in a god, so they believe... others don't want to or need to.

You seem to have a lot of faith in your religion, but I wonder how deep or use-
ful faith has been for your understanding when you could not even answer a
number of my questions regarding Christianity and the Catholic Church's earthly
history! Faith does not necessarily bring any enlightenment.

Finally, I do not feel one must believe in a god in order to love life and
appreciate beauty. As a matter of fact, I know a number of god-worshippers who
are so obesessed with hell, sins and death that they seem to be missing the
world around them. How sad.   THEY seem more tormented by their beliefs than
blessed!  Without a heaven or hell to continually cry and fret over, relaxing
and appreciating this world is not always hard for me.

If anyone on the List believes that their god deals out sicknesses and horror
on
people and even animals because they 'go against His way,' I'd be interested in
hearing their interpretation on why wonderful Ms. Weil got untimely sick and
died at such an early age. What did she do wrong?

Thank you,
Mark








--- End of forwarded mail from  (Mark Humphreys)

At 03:44 PM 9/18/96 PDT, Jeliko wrote:
>Last week I was in Pruhonice (a suburb of Prague) at a nuclear waste
>management conference and at one lunch was seated with Czech attendees. The
>discussion related to the demise of the Austro-Hungarian empire. They
>stated that the oppression of the Slovaks ny the Hungarians before WW I was
>so bad that only 5 (repeat five) people knew Slovak. Now if that is the
>"memory" of university graduates, guess what is the residual impression of
>others. I knew more than five Slovaks in southern Hungary who knew only
>Slovak and very limited Hungarian even during WW II after another 25 years
>of "oppression". No wonder that there are wild accusations even today, when
>people grow up and are educated in grossly false beliefs.

        Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. As long as such ignorance reigns
in whole of Eastern Europe about our common pasts, we cannot get anywhere.
Quite a few years ago an article appeared, from the Hungarian point of view
only though, about historical falsifications in Slovak, Romanian, and
Yugoslav high-school history books. It was most interesting. But the
ignorance of our own history can be rather frightening as well. Or,
misconceptions we hold close to our hearts. And we better not talk about our
ignorance of each other's history, culture, and language.

        As for your Czech table companions, I hope you did tell them that
according to the Hungarian census of 1910, there were almost 2 million
Slovak-speaking inhabitants of Hungary (to be precise 1,946,357), which was
11.9 percent of the whole population. Can you imagine if that was only five
percent of the whole--a nation of forty million!!! Just like France or
Poland!! As for assimilation--although the Slovaks, by leaving their
villages and moving to Budapest and other larger cities were more prone to
assimilate--it was very slow. In 1900 the Slovak-speakers were just over 2
million. To be precise there was a loss of only 55,808 Slovak-speakers in
ten years! It would have taken quite a few years to assimilate two million
Slovaks! Therefore, the fear, expressed by R. W. Seton-Watson, a great
friend of the Czechs, that the Slovaks would disappear from the face of the
earth if they remained within the borders of Hungary was totally unfounded.

        Eva Balogh

At 10:36 AM 9/18/96 GMT, Steve Tischer wrote:

>My main hobby gardening interest is in peppers more than flowers so I
>have about twenty varieties producing madly here in Atlanta. Included are
>many Hungarian types started from seed saved during a vacation in
>Budapest last October. Most of the varieties are sweet, red and very
>prolific. Examples include Edes, Eros, Pritamin, Kalosci, Mackskapiros
>and Karmen.
>
>Anybody know a source in Hungary for mail order seeds?

If there isn't one, there should be.  It would be worth it for the irony alone.

Joe Szalai

In article >,
 says...

>None of them is superior: it's currently, and has been for the past couple
>of hundred years, the U.S., of course!!! ;-)
>And without a present or future, who would be around to worry about the
> past,right? ;-)

American civilization the most superior in Europe? As far as nowadays
is concerned, you could well have a point! The UK as the long-time 51st
state as well as being a stationary US aircraft carrier, Disney in Paris,
US soaps, Dallas, Star Trek, CNN, etc, all over European TV, even the
World Cup (soccer) in the USA (albeit won by a South American team),
Independence Day in the cinemas, US troops in Bosnia, Hungary, etc, the
visit by Tony Blair and some of his *New Labour* hierarchy to the US to
knit closer ties with the Clinton administration.. an' y'all, waaal...
doggone...ah reckon dat's de troof, coz the US Mormons over here tell
me that the true revelation of God happened in the US... ;-)

Hey, did you hear about the recent digging up of the remnants of the
original 1607 Jamestown English settlement (pre-Mayflower) in Virginia?
The local mayor (or whatever) reportedly made a speech about how it is
the real cradle of modern US civilization..the guy must be an Anglophile,
or something ;-)

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

In article >, Zoltan Szekely
> writes:

>
>Sam:
>> As I pointed out (...) the machinery is pretty much
>> value-neutral. It takes human will and human genius to make it kill and
>> maim.
>Are you talking about the Desert Storm technique, which
>is going to be reused by Clinton, or what? Just asking...
>
>                                                (Sz.Z)

Think about this, Zoltan. Your precious European culture is responsible
for starting two of the worst wars in human history during this century
and imposing a miserable totalitarian concoction on Hungary and most of
Eastern Europe for nearly half of that same century. Wow, what a track
record! And having learned from their mistakes, the wealthier, supposedly
more culturally advanced western Europeans showed real fortitude and
courage in halting Serb aggression in Bosnia on their own. I guess it
would be a bit impolite to point out that western European blather about
human rights and preventing genocide inevitably only becomes a concrete
reality when it's vouchsafed by American lives, as it is currently in
Bosnia and was in Somalia. But what the heck, politeness is not my strong
point.

I still don't understand why you're wasting your time at an American
university. A guy with your exquisite sensibilities ought to be haunting
some Left Bank cafe, smoking Gauloises and talking earnestly about the
philosophy of Fu'ko' Mihai. Just think -- France's gain would be our loss.
Still, your departure from the University of South Carolina would free up
a graduate post for some undeserving American untermensch. If not France,
how about at least Canada. Joe Szalai works at a university in Ontario.
I'm sure he'd be willing to mail you an admission application.

Question for our Hungarian-American brethren: Are all Hungarian college
students studying in American universities as obtuse and arrogant as
Zoltan or is he an aberration? From what I can gather, he's learned
nothing from living in the U.S.
Sam Stowe

Born to laugh at hurricanes.

Hello everyone!

The procedure belowe in Hungary is called: Pilota-jatek (Pilot-game). But I
think, it is over now (BTW, as far as I know, it is illegal in Hungary). But
sometimes it works (There are two common things in the Universe: hydrogen
and stupidity.)

>Did you know that it is easy and simple to turn a measly $5 into as
>much as $50,000!
>
>Taking 5 minutes to read this text may be one of the best decisions
>you've ever made.
>
>I could make $50 000 for an investment of only $5. I thought it was a huge
>joke!
> I spoke to my friends about it and they thought likewise. But after three
>weeks of desperate struggle I decided I had nothing to lose. I sent $1 to
>each of 5 names and addresses specified in the article. I then placed my
>name and address in the article and posted it in other newsgroups. Two
>weeks later, I started receiving money in the mail! I could not believe it!
> It came from all over the world. If you follow the 3
> steps below, there is no reason whatsoever why the same shouldn't happen
>to you. This is a perfectly legitimate investment opportunity. You invest
>$5 and you receive a return on your investment. So does the next investor.
>NOT ILLEGAL, NOT A CHAIN LETTER - PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE!
>
>OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED, THEN DON'T PARTICIPATE. BUT
>PLEASE PRINT THIS ARTICLE AND GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO MAY WISH TO TAKE
>ADVANTAGE.
>
>The procedure is very simple.
>
>STEP 1. Write your name and address on 5 separate pieces of paper with
>the words "PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST". Fold a $1 note in each of
>the pieces of paper and mail them to the following five addresses:
>******************************************************************
>
>1.     Marko Cehaja
>        Strangenstr. 63
>        70771 L. - Echterdingen
>        Germany
>
>2.     Daniel Wigardt
>        Box 16
>        841  21  Ange
>        Sweden
>
>3.     Zdenko Vazdar
>        Ruzdjaka 9c
>        10000 Zagreb
>        Croatia
>
>4.     Todd Orr
>        928 W. 1850  N.
>        West Bountiful, UT  84087
>        USA
>
>5.     Mr.  B.
>        PO BOX  543
>        Newman Lake,  WA  99025
>        USA
>
>******************************************************************
>
>STEP 2. Now remove the 1st name on the list, move the other 4 names up
>(5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3 etc) and put your name and address as number 5 on
>the list. You can do this by re-typing this article or simply editing and
>re-posting it in this or another newsgroup.
>
>STEP 3. Post your amended article to at least 200 new groups (there are
>thousands of them).
>
>You are now in the Mail Order Investment Business and you will start
>receiving $1 returns by mail within a week or two. The more newsgroups you
>post to, the bigger your return will be. You may want to rent a Post Office
>Box to handle the volume of mail you are likely to receive. If you wish to
>remain anonymous, you
>can use a pseudonym such as "The Manager" or "The Investor", but make
>sure your address is correct!
>
>NOW LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SYSTEM WORKS!
>
>LET'S SAY
>
>Of every 200 postings you make, You received an average of 5 replies, YES
>- ONLY 5, each with a $1 bill enclosed. You make $5 for every 200 postings
>WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 5.
>
>Each person who sent you $1, now also makes let's say, only 200
>additional postings WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 4, i.e. 1000 postings. On
>average therefore, 50 people will send you $1 with your name at number 4.
>You make $50.
>
>Your 50 new agents make 200 posting each WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 3 or
>10 000 postings - average return 500 at $1 each is $500. They make 200
>postings each WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 2 = 100 000 postings = 5 000 returns
>at $1 each = $5 000.
>
>Finally, 5 000 people make 200 postings each WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER
>1 and you get a return of $50 000 before you name drops off the list. AND
>THAT'S IF EVERYONE DOWN THE LINE ONLY MAKES 200 POSTINGS! Total income in
>one cycle = $55 500.
>
>From time to time, when your name is no longer on the list, you take the
>latest posting that is appearing in the newsgroups, SEND OUT ANOTHER $5 TO
>THE NAMES THAT ARE ON THE LIST, PUT YOUR NAME IN AT NUMBER 5 AND START
>POSTING AGAIN. Remember, 200 postings is only a guideline. The more you
>post, the greater the return.
>
>Let's review the reasons why you should do this: THE ONLY COST FACTORS
>ARE 5 STAMPS, 5 ENVELOPES, AND 5 $1 BILLS. Anyone can afford five dollars
>to put into such an effortless investment with SPECTACULAR RETURNS.
>
>Some people have said to me "What happens if the scheme is 'played
>out' and no one sends me any money"? Big deal! So you lose $5 - but what
>are the chances of that happening?
>
>Do you realise how many Internet Users there are? Do you realise how
>many times this scheme can be utilised over and over again - with
>COMPLETELY NEW people participating?
>
>There are not HUNDREDS, NOT EVEN THOUSANDS, BUT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
>NEW INTERNET USERS EVERY MONTH!
>
>Remember, read the instructions carefully and play FAIRLY...that's the
>only way this will work. Get a printout so you can refer back to this
>article easily.
>
>Try to keep a list of everyone that sends you money and always keep an
>eye on the newsgroup postings to make sure everyone is playing fairly. You
>know where your name should be.
>

******************************
*       Lajos Monoki         *
*  NCR Hungary - CSS Szeged  *
* e-mail: *
*  Tel/Fax: +36-62-434101    *
*    Mobil: +36-30-584523    *
******************************


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
           Edgar Allan Poe