Esztergon is in western part of hungary  where stand the Esztergom
Catedral. Erseki Was a Bishop who established
the library.Probably the first in hungary.

> >I nice illustration for all I happened to say before; the market
> >system is not human-friendly.
>
>         And this is where you anticapitalist bias comes in. Let's take
> actually the cigarette companies because they are very good illustrations
> that you are wrong. In Hungary, not just during the "socialist" regime but
> also prior to the communist takeover tobacco was state monopoly. That meant
> that all factories were run by the state and the income from smoking went
> into the coffers of the state. It was therefore not in the interest of the
> state to cut down on smoking. Cutting down on smoking would have meant less
> income.
>

Uptill the 70s I don't think there was more or less awareness of the danger
than in the US, but alas, I am not defending a non-democratic system,
that was as capable of meanness as any capitalist country...


> >Morals are just the same as in any European country - whoever can
> >get away with it cheats, the more powerful gets away with more.
>
>         There are many, many signs that the morals in Hungary and in the
> other East European countries are below the norm in Western Europe. Reason
> being that the only way to survive in the Kadar regime was to find ways of
> avoiding the law. Also, the preponderance of state ownership had a negative
> effect on the population. Public ownership, as far as they were concerned,
> belonged to nobody and therefore was there for the taking.
>

There's not many maffia-shootouts here in the UK (at the moment),
but  morals in politics and commerce are pretty low, and there are
numerous scandals whichever country you care to look; until money and
power will be the most important factor in social life, don't expect
much improvements in the morals. Funnily enough,  bad morals are
not blamed on past systems here, but on "godlessness" - when in fact there is
less division of state and religion here than in most of the other
European countries.


>         If you are interested what I think of the media and its effect on
> all of us, please turn to the last issues of Forum. There is such thing as
> biased media, of course. The New York Times is a liberal paper which is also
> very sensitive when it comes to Israel or Jewish issues. (After all, 25
> percent of New York City's population is Jewish.) However, I can't come up
> with any good reason why the New York Times (and every other paper, tv
> stations, documentaries, etc. etc.) would depict some of the industrial
> sites in Eastern Europe as wastelands. Why? Being a liberal paper it
> obviously cares about the environment. Being a large paper it has several
> correspondents who are stationed in Eastern European countries who go to
> these sites and report on what they find there. Why should they lie? Tell me?
>
>         Eva Balogh
>

I read - and confess to be fond of - The Guardian, which is quite an
institution here, but I'm sure as hell, that it would treat any
alternative ideas to the market economy with contempt or not at all,
 and not with the usual curiosity or vigorous examination.
I think, you could think up why yourself, if you really-really try...

In the village where we lived 1983-87 there were two lines of wine
cellars on the hillside, but in the village "italbolt" the vast
majority was drinking beer on tap - don't ask me what type, I seem to
be the only one who detest beer on this list...
People however drank their quite vile home grown red wine
at home with their meals. Most families collected fruit, and once a
year packed up firewood and went to the local (legal) distiller,
where they made their own palinka, and paid the dues.
This was for such occasions as pig-killing or thanking the help of
neighbours - there was ofcourse too much healthdestroying drinking.
When my husband with other fairly able-bodied men went around the
village when it was pig-collection day by the Kaposvar meat-combine
and pigs were collectively lifted on trucks (don't ask me why they
did not use hoists etc.) at 5 a.m., he had to have an obligatory
drink of palinka at every household taking part - and he-s being
English, abhors the idea of drinking before lunchtime...
Anyhow, I've never tasted better wine than Badacsonyi Szurkebarat.
And most hungarian made rieslings are just fine - desparately trying
to get away from the beer-topic...

Well, you don't miss a lot by not reading the forwarded text.
The jist of it is how nasty this present goverment is, which
is the same commie bastards as before, with nothing else in mind than
the destruction of the Hungarian People.
My comment is, that any MDF/Fidesz/KgP etc. government would do exactly
the same thing, with even worse consequenses for the poor.

On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Sam Stowe wrote:
> Are there any Hungarian beers available in the American market? I didn't
> think the Hungarians were as big on drinking beer as some of their
> neighbors. I'd like to know how Hungarian beer stacks up in terms of
> quality and amount consumed compared to other European nations.
> Sam Stowe
>
> P.S. -- Peter, don't you think the domestic beer situation here in the
> States has improved substantially over the last decade or so since the
> rise of the microbrewery? Seems like us American beer drinkers get a lot
> more choice and a lot higher quality these days.

Yes I do. I think that the big boys are not only trying to squash some of
them but are most likely investing in them too. Thet are also coming out
with more "specialized" beers trying to compete for the tastes of beer
lovers.

As far as HU is concerned, in most places outside BP one usually gets
bottled beer - transport/distribution still being relatively poor - I am
not aware of many (any) real micro breweries in HU. Is anyone?
Peter Soltesz
PS- I do not know of any HU beers exported to the States nor Canada.
Please advise.

On Fri, 4 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:

> Well, you don't miss a lot by not reading the forwarded text.
> The jist of it is how nasty this present goverment is, which
> is the same commie bastards as before, with nothing else in mind than
> the destruction of the Hungarian People.
> My comment is, that any MDF/Fidesz/KgP etc. government would do exactly
> the same thing, with even worse consequenses for the poor.
> 
>
OK Eva explain yourself better please....are U saying that the courrent
commie govt is better than those listed? Do you think anyone but the
commies would destroy the country? Sounds like non-sense to me!
Peter

At 05:18 PM 12/4/96 +0100, Gyorgy Jalsovszky wrote:

>Dear Eva, it is a remissible sin to confuse Erkel's Hunyadi with Bank Ban.
>On the other hand, in certain "strata of Hungarian society", it is a mortal
>sin to do the same with nagyfroccs and hosszulepes. The mixture of 1 dl wine
>with 2 dl soda water is hosszulepes, and 2 dl of wine mixed with 1 dl of
>soda water is called nagyfroccs.

        Well, it just shows that I didn't too often order either nagyfroccs,
kisfroccs or hosszulepes in my first twenty years of life. Yes, I'm afraid,
Gyorgy is right. The hosszulepes is the least lethal of the three, having
the least amount of wine in it (1 to 2). And, of course, the nagyfroccs is
the most potent. Thanks for the correction.

        Eva Balogh

About a week ago we had a brief discussion on popular pressure on
the SZDSZ to join the coalition. There were several people who doubted that
there was such a pressure. I remembered otherwise, including popular
surveys. In the November 23 issue of HVG (p. 11) there is an interesting
chart depicting the ups and downs of support for the coalition among voters
(broken down into three categories: MSZP, SZDSZ, and opposition). According
to that chart in June 1994 82% of the MSZP voters, 85% of the SZDSZ voters,
and about 53% of the people who voted for one of the opposition parties
approved the formation of a coalition government.

        Of course, since then things have changed. Only about 70 percent of
the MSZP voters, only 58 percent of the SZDSZ voters and only thirty percent
of those who voted for one of the opposition parties approve the arrangement.

        Eva Balogh

The Oregon Hungarian Communion of Friends will have it's yearly Advent/Christma
s
get-together on Sunday, December 8 at 4 PM, in the hall of St. Patrick's Roman
Catholic Church, located at 1623 NW 19th in Portland, Oregon! It will be a
pot-luck, so please bring something you like and want to share! There will be a
brief program in Hungarian and English, singing Hungarian carols, a chance to
meet others and chat, and extra fun for the kids. Special guest appearence by
St. Nicholas, Krampusz has not been invited so no need to fear. If you plan to
bring children under 12 please call Agnes Kovacs at (503) 245-2822.

Hope to see you there!


8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8


Az Oregoni Magyar Barati Kozosseg adventi/karacsonyi osszejovetelet 1996.
december 8-an vasarnap 16 orai kezdettel tartjuk meg a regi helyen a
St. Patrick r.k. templom nagytermeben. A templom cime 1623 NW 19th, Portland,
Oregon. Batyubuli: mindenki hozzon enni- es kinalni valot! Kaveval uditovel
szolgalunk. Rovid program, ismerkedes, karacsonyi enekek, terefere, a
gyermekeknek kulon szorakozas. A Telapo is megigerte, hogy eljon. Krampusz nem
kapot meghivot. Aki 12 even aluli gyermekkel jonne: kerjuk hivja fel Kovacs
Agnest a (503) 245-2822-es szamon!

A Viszontlatasig!

--
Steve Kovacs                                I yam wot I yam!
ADP Dealer Services                              Popeye the Sailor Man
Email: 

> Status:
>
> On Fri, 4 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:
>
> > Well, you don't miss a lot by not reading the forwarded text.
> > The jist of it is how nasty this present goverment is, which
> > is the same commie bastards as before, with nothing else in mind than
> > the destruction of the Hungarian People.
> > My comment is, that any MDF/Fidesz/KgP etc. government would do exactly
> > the same thing, with even worse consequenses for the poor.
> > 
> >
> OK Eva explain yourself better please....are U saying that the courrent
> commie govt is better than those listed? Do you think anyone but the
> commies would destroy the country? Sounds like non-sense to me!
> Peter
>


Sounds like you don't read carefully fairly plain text. I said above,
that all the government and the opposition parties are offering is
the same market-economy
a la US or a la Portugal, I just cannot spot the difference. Was the
MDF different in any way? They all try to curb democracy while in
power, but widen it while in opposition, do what the IMF and the EU
and the Nato wants while in power, but mouth some sentiment against
them while in opposition.  Some forever looks for Nasty Baddies
Conspiring against Innocent Hardworing and Pure (Hungarians).
How boring and idiotic.

>
> On Fri, 4 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:
> <snippety>
> > drink of palinka at every household taking part - and he-s being
> > English, abhors the idea of drinking before lunchtime...
>
> <<<<<< Well I do not know about that. I been to England many times and
> there ain't no lunch without guzzling down a pint or two (or more) of
> dark ale....then more after work...then more at dinner....etc.
> BTW For USA people the UK/Canadian pint is 20% LARGER!
>

If you look carefully, you can see that I was talking about
"before lunchtime".

For the past month, I have been reading the comments on this BB, and tried to
respond to some comments that I consider pro-Communist, anti-Hungarian, and
anti-American.  My postings were rejected, and I asked the LISTSERV not to
send me any more bulletins.  Today, I received notification that my name was
added to the HUNGARY list.  I will try it for a while.

In 1956, I was a second year student at the Technical University of Budapest.
I joined the uprising for our freedom and had to leave my beloved country.  I
have served in the United States Army (Honorable Discharge) during the Cuban
crisis.  I am a Civil Engineer with the National Park Service.  At the end of
1996, I am retiring to work full time on thesis in water resources.

My English and Hungarian is not as good as it should be, but I will still put
in my two cents worth:

* I believe that communists are garbage who sold our people to the Soviets.
* I believe that a we bring honor to Hungary by being good citizens of our new
country.

Lippai Istvan

We had a rather lengthy, technical debate on the merits of displaying the Xmas
tree and the Nativity scene on public (National Park Service) property.  I was
hoping to add a new perspective the debate, and offered a bit of Hungarian
history.  Knowing the liberal mindset, I expected to receive a flood of
ridicule and protests to my remarks.

I was gratified that, with one exception, the overwhelming response was
positive.  I was especially touched by the response from Margaret (see below).
 Hungarians are admired for our tradition of making sacrifices for the cause
of freedom.

This Thanksgiving, I gave thanks (a Magyarok Istenenek) for the privilege of
having lived in a free country for the past 40 years.

Lippai Istvan
*******************************************

     Mr. Lippai -

     My name is Margaret Nash (maiden name - Melega).  I am first
     generation American and my parents were both Hungarian.  My father was
     from Budapest and my mother was from a small town called Homosa (I
     hope I spelled that right) in the Urals near the Czechoslovakian
     boarder.  I have always been so proud of my parents and the culture
     from which they came and after reading your cc:mail message I am even
     prouder of that culture.  You expressed yourself very well and your
     message should make people think and I dare say you should not be
     receiving any flack.  Please do not hesitate to speak your mind,
     because you make people look at things in a larger context.  Good
     work!


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re[6]: Religious Holiday Decorations at Park Sites
Author:  Istvan Lippai at NP-DSC
Date:    12/3/96 12:51 PM


I grew up under communist rule.  The communists considered our
faith in God an obstacle to their domination.  They killed
priests and demolished churches, but they could not destroy our
hope.

In place of a beautiful church in Budapest, they built a huge
monument to Stalin, which we destroyed during the 1956 uprising.

I do not go to church now, but as a young man in Hungary, I would
never miss the Sunday noon service.  We always concluded the
service with the singing of Hungarian Anthem.  The Hungarian
Anthem is a simple yet beautiful prayer to God.

I suspect that I will get some flack for my posting.
*****************************************************************

We may try all we like through rulings by the court or anyone else.  The
holiday
is Christmas.  It's root word is Christ and that's who the celebration is for.

It is not a secular holiday.  We try so hard not to offend anyone that we lose

site of the basis and backbone of what this country was founded upon.  This
country was founded upon Christian beliefs and our "modern day" thinking can
not
change this.  And just as we celebrate other historical events of this nation,

Christmas should be celebrated, particularly with the nativity scene displayed

in public places.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re[4]: Religious Holiday Decorations at Park Sites
Author:  David Nathanson at NP-HFC
Date:    12/2/96 10:33 AM


            I would like to know by what stretch of the imagination
            could a court conclude that the Nativity scene is secular
            in nature.  Wouldn't Christians be upset to know that it
            is considered just another farm scene?  And if the
            Christmas tree is considered "a traditional symbol of
            Christmas" which is certainly a religious holiday that
            only one group of religious sects, namely Christians,
            celebrate, how does that make it "secular in nature" ?
            The whole reasoning behind these arguments is ridiculous,
            regardless of whether they are made by the courts or not.
            Although I am not Christian, I personally enjoy this
            holiday season and I am not offended by all the Christmas
            stuff or the fact that we have a Federal holiday
            designated for a religious event.  But let's be real,
            folks, the dominant culture in the U.S. has asserted
            itself and no amount of rationalization can change the
            facts.

            Happy holidays!

            David Nathanson, HFC

            ----------------------------------------------------------
            (from Sandra Alley)
            In summary, the Christmas Tree on park land (or public
            land) is considered a traditional symbol of christmas and
            is secular in nature--not promoting one religious sect
            over another.

            At National Capital Area, We have gone through many court
            cases on this, but primarily they focus on the display of
            the nativity scene and not the christmas tree, which
            actually originated in pagan times...

            as a rule of thumb (I'm not a lawyer but have worked on
            this many years), the national tree--and other displays
            such as yule log and nativity scene and all part of the
            annual christmas pageant of peace on the ellipse, south of
            the white house, are considered by the courts as being
            traditional symbols of christmas and do not promote one
            religious sect over another.  the tree is traditionally
            lighted by the president of the united states (this year
            it is next thursday, dec. 5)..

            on the other hand, a menorrah, lighted during hannukkah--does
            represent one religious sect--and therefore is on parkland
            under a first amendment permit issued the nps.

            for many years, we did not display the nativity scene because
            of a law suit, but in past few years, the courts have ruled
            that the nativity scene--as other christmas symbols-- is
            secular in nature and may be displayed on public land.   (As I
            recall, the case was in connecticut.)  ( I can go back to my
            files, for those who need more.)

            there are actually three trees in washington: one inside the
            white house; one on the capitol grounds, and the third, the
            national tree on the ellipse.  the national park service, by
            code of federal regulations, sponsors the pageant and has for
            years.  (36 CFR 7.96)

           if you are unsure about the display of holiday symbols/decorations,

           check with your solicitor's office, or i'd be glad to confirm any
           particular questions with our solicitor, who has defended us for
           years.

           just make sure trees and such are not in anyway associated with one

           religious sect..such as displaying a sign saying it was donated by
           the xyz church or something...keep it neutral in content._
           _____________________________ Reply Separator
           _________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: Religious Holiday Decorations at Park Sites
Author:  SWSO Finance at NP-SWRO-OSFT
Date:    11/25/96 2:08 PM



Since the White House grounds are maintained by the National
Parks Service should the President be asked not to display the
Christmas tree anymore?






    For 25 years Assateague Island NS has had an Xmas tree in the lobby of
    the Visitor Center. The tree is adorned with ornaments for each
    employee (each new employee made one for another new employee), we must
    have forty ornaments from over the years (all non-religious,etc.). We
    put little red bow ties on our bronze Canadian Goose wall sculpture,
    ring our 500 gallon aquarium with lights, and play Xmas C/Ds with
    non-religious themes(Frosty the Snowman, etc.)

    Since we do have a surge of visitors to the park around the holidays,
    we get in the mood of happiness without religious intent...

    No, we DON'T string wreaths of Holly on our wild horses !!!

    Chris Seymour
    ASIS Interp. Specilist

Peter Soltesz forwarded a piece of writing which was published in
the weekly *Demokrata* and which is available on the web under
http://ww.siliconvalley.com/demokrata/

        I must admit Peter that when you originally republished Sesztak's
piece I didn't have the patience to read it. I didn't because I know who
Agnes Sesztak is, and therefore I had a pretty good idea what she was going
to say. Moreover, and here I will be very candid, I said to myself: "why
does Peter Soltesz pick up the worst kind of demagoguery in the Hungarian
language?" In brief, I had not intention on commenting on Agnes Sesztak's
golden thoughts on the Hungarian scene, simply because I find her and her
message repulsive. But more important, the worst demagoguery around.

        But then came Eva Durant. And when Eva Durant says that there is no
difference between Agnes Sesztak and the SZDSZ or MSZP I perk up! I suddenly
think that it might be worthwhile to read Agnes Sesztak in order to let
people know that Eva Durant is dead wrong. Only someone out left field
cannot distinguish between the extreme right and the right or left of center
and the socialists. Eva Durant, of course, is one of those.

>SESZTAK AGNES
>[Demokrata, 96/10, http://www.siliconvalley.com/demokrata/ ]
>
>Azt mondja egy felmeres, hogy Europaban a magyar a
>legborulatobb nemzet. Milyennek kene lennunk? Hiszen mar
>nem is vagyunk nemzet.

Those of you who don't understand the original--here is a brief description
of the beginning: "According to some polls we are the most pessimistic
nation in Europe. But what should we be? We are not even a nation
anymore,"--says Agnes Sesztak. And this is just the beginning.

>Hallgassanak meg egy parlamenti beszedet:
>hol adofizeto, hol allampolgar, hol jogalany, legtobbszor pedig
>kezelhetetlen lakossag a nevunk.

        Further translation: "Let's listen to a parliamentary speech:
sometime our names are taxpayers, sometimes citizens, sometimes subjects,
but most often unmanagable inhabitants."

>Jogunk semmi, egyetlen
>kotelessegunk annak a kleptokracianak diktaturajat turni,
>amely mar ult a nyakunkon negyven evig.

        "Rights we have none. Our only duty to suffer the dictatorship of
the cleptocracia which had oppressed us for forty years."

>Akkor nem szocialista
>uraknak, hanem kommunista elvtarsaknak hivattak magukat.

        "Then their name was not socialist misters but communist comrades."
<Snip>

>Semmifele ellenorzesre nincs modunk, mert a
>media a diktatura szoros szovetsegese.

        "We have absolutely no opportunity to control their activities
because the media is a close ally of the dictatorship."

>Hazudik, aki arrol beszel, hogy a helyzet javul. Csak rosszabbodik,
>mert a hatalmon levoknek nem erdekuk a jobbitas.

        "Those who say that the situation is improving is lying. The fact is
that it is actually getting worse because those in power have no interest in
making the situation better."

>Horn
>Gyulanak egyetlen szava sem igaz,

        "Not one word of Gyula Horn is true,"

        <Snip>

        [A short paragraph about the banks which steal from the population.
And finally, why don't the Hungarian pensioners get such a high pension as
those in the West who can spent their dying days in the Riviera, while the
Hungarian pensioners don't know how to pay for heating their apartments.
What happened to the money which was taken away as social security benefits.]

        And Eva Durant says that because all parties want to build
capitalism, there is really no difference between Agnes Sesztak and, let's
say, Gyula Horn.

        This is where Eva Durant makes herself ridiculous. Of course, there
is a difference and by announcing that there isn't Eva Durant, with her
crazy dream of some utopistic socialism, is doing nothing else but washes
together the far right and the rest of the political spectrum. She is not
doing any favor to anyone, especially not to her own cause. Because if I
were her, I would sure opt for a left of center ideology as opposed to
saying that there is no difference between far right and social democracy
(however distorted that social democracy is at the moment in Hungary) and
liberalism. They are all rotten--according to her--because they don't
recognize the coming of Paradise, the real socialism a la Eva Durant.
Please, wake up. You would be better off to settle for a decent democratic,
liberal regime with a decent social net as opposed to belittling Agnes
Sesztak and her friends as nothing but the same anti-socialist crap!

        Eva Balogh

Dear Magda (Zimanyi),

At 12:46 PM 12/4/96 +0100, you wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:
>
>>[...]
>>         Less and less so. More and more the FIDESZ is trying to outdo the
>> nationalism of the right and I consider that a very bad sign. I am also
>> unhappy about another piece of news: very harsh criticism of the market
>> economy. I consider both of these attitudes signs of rightist sentiments.
>
>I would like to call your attention to the home page of FIDESz. URL:
>
>       http://www.fidesz.hu

        You might be surprised to hear but I already bookmarked the website
of FIDESZ at the time when it was announced--maybe in the Magyar
Narancs--that the party does have a website. I assume you are calling our
attention to their website because it contains the "working papers" I was
referring to. (I am not even sure whether they are called the working papers
or not but they sound like working papers.) In any case, as I mentioned in
my first letter, I read only a synopsis of a critique of these working
papers by a leading member of the SZDSZ. If I recall I also added that given
the source, the critique might be biased. Therefore, I am pleased that I
will be able to read it in the original. I tried to get to it today but I
was told that the server was down most likely. In any case, I was not able
to get to the website. As soon as I do I will give my own reaction to the
original piece.

        Thanks again, Eva Balogh

At 11:24 PM 12/4/96 UT, Istvan Lippai > wrote:

<snip>
>Christmas should be celebrated, particularly with the nativity scene displayed

I don't mean to be a stickler, but don't you mean "naivety scene"?

Joe Szalai

On Fri, 4 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:
> > <snippety>
> If you look carefully, you can see that I was talking about
> "before lunchtime".

Is before lunchtime any more acceptable than after lunchtime?
Peter

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Istvan Lippai wrote:

> For the past month, I have been reading the comments on this BB, and tried to
> respond to some comments that I consider pro-Communist, anti-Hungarian, and
> anti-American.  My postings were rejected, and I asked the LISTSERV not to
> send me any more bulletins.  Today, I received notification that my name was
> added to the HUNGARY list.  I will try it for a while.
<SNIP>
> * I believe that communists are garbage who sold our people to the Soviets.
> * I believe that a we bring honor to Hungary by being good citizens of our ne
w
> country.

Well Istvan, I do not know why you would have been "rejected". Perhaps
you do not see your OWN listings, jkust like many of us. It does not mean
that your postings do not show up on the list.

Now that you are on...I guess welcome. Let's see what you can contribute.
Peter

Dear Eva Balogh:
Thank you for your translation of part of the above. I did not lnow where
it came from directly as it was sent to me by a friend ion HU who stated
that this is probabaly how most of the HU people feel in general.

I also applaud your comments.

Peter Soltesz

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
> At 11:24 PM 12/4/96 UT, Istvan Lippai > wrote:
> <snip>
> >Christmas should be celebrated, particularly with the nativity scene
 displayed
> I don't mean to be a stickler, but don't you mean "naivety scene"?
> Joe Szalai

Oh come on Joe! Your naivetae is showing! Leave Istvan alone. Peter

On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:

>[...]
>         Less and less so. More and more the FIDESZ is trying to outdo the
> nationalism of the right and I consider that a very bad sign. I am also
> unhappy about another piece of news: very harsh criticism of the market
> economy. I consider both of these attitudes signs of rightist sentiments.

I would like to call your attention to the home page of FIDESz. URL:

       http://www.fidesz.hu

Regards

 Magdolna Zimanyi
 KFKI Research Institute for Particle  Phone: +36-1-175-8257
 and Nuclear Physics                   FAX:   +36-1-169-6567
 Computer Networking Center            E-mail: 
   !!!!!!      Phone number after 7 December: +36-1-395-9151
   !!!!!!      FAX number   after 7 December: +36-1-395-9242
 H-1525 Budapest 114, POB. 49, Hungary URL: http://www.kfki.hu/~mzimanyi
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eva S. Balogh > wrote in HUNGARY #865:

>      It was customary in those days to have some wine with every meal.
>Not full strength but a "spritzer," that is a combination of wine and soda
>water. (The combination of one deciliter of wine and one deciliter of
>sodawater is called a "kisfro:ccs," and the combination of two deciliter of
>wine and one deciliter of sodawater is called a "hosszu'le'pe's" [long
>step].)

Dear Eva, it is a remissible sin to confuse Erkel's Hunyadi with Bank Ban.
On the other hand, in certain "strata of Hungarian society", it is a mortal
sin to do the same with nagyfroccs and hosszulepes. The mixture of 1 dl wine
with 2 dl soda water is hosszulepes, and 2 dl of wine mixed with 1 dl of
soda water is called nagyfroccs.

>However, by the late 1960s things had changed. Hard liquor became more
>fashionable (Scotch, for example) and the poorer strata of society became
>rum drinkers--often mixed with beer.

In my opinion Scotch drinkers form a negligible part of Hungarian society.
Moreover, "pa'linka" (brandy) seems (smells) to be more popular than rum.

George Jalsovszky

>One other pollution problem (and a tax problem) is the habit of diesel
>taxi and car owners is to purchase heavily subsidized home heating fuel

Two oils were absolutely the same: the only difference was the color. (Oil
from other countries was colored on the border by customs - about 1 l of red
"ink" to a tank-waggon)

>instead of the more expensive diesel fuel. I undererstand that the home
>heating fuel is now being "tainted" with a marker and the police can pull
>a diesel car over to perform a test from the tank. If it has this stuff
>in it, then whammo! you get a BIG fine.  I have yet to actually see or
>hear of this happening. Anyone out there who knows better??
>Peter Soltesz
>

Yes, there was a big problem with these two(?) types of oils. There was a
big business based on making red oil "blonde" (so it was call in Hungarian
olajszo:kite's). Now there is no difference in price: diesel oil is 118.5
Ft/liter and so is heating oil.

BTW: nobody from this "blonde-business" was really sentenced. Only little
fishes were caught, big fishes are free (some say it is because ministers
from previos government were in this business:( And maybe it is true.

Lajos