WANT A RECIPE TO BRING YOU CASH?

Hello!

DO YOU WANT A RECIPE TO BRING YOU CASH?

Do you need more money to pay your bills? Would you like to earn more money to
increase your
savings? Do you have some special personal projects that you can't realize at
the moment
because you do not have (yet) the necessary resources?

If the answer is "yes" to any of the above questions, BLESS YOUR TODAY'S LUCK &
READ
THIS MESSAGE VERY CAREFULLY: it might be the beginning of a new SIGNIFICANT
source
of income for you: if you decide to follow these instructions, YOU CAN EARN AS
MUCH AS
US$100,000.00 or more in about 30 days!

IT WORKS EVERY TIME; it makes money for those who HONESTLY and STRICTLY comply
with the following instructions:

At the end of the present message, you will see a list of FOUR (4) persons.
Each of them is willing
to sell a delicious recipe for a very small amount: US$2.00.

Here is what you have to do now:

1/-Send US$ 2.00 (cash only) inside a sheet of carbon paper or strong wrapping
paper,
together with a self-addressed, stamped envelope to EACH of those persons, for
the recipes
they offer;

2/-Remove the name, address and recipe title of the person who is in the number
1 position
on the list;

3/-Put your own exact address and the name of your own recipe in the number 4
position
(you may also put your name but the system works fine even if you wish to
remain
anonymous);

4/-Doing so, the person #1 disappears, person #2 becomes #1, person #3 becomes
#2, person #4 becomes #3 and YOU BECOME PERSON #4.

5/-MAKE A COPY OF THIS MESSAGE AND POST THIS MESSAGE
with your name in number 4 position TO 10 DIFFERENT NEWSGROUPS.

In average, each POSTING should generate a favourable response from 100
persons.

Then, there is nothing more to do than WAIT..until the money starts coming to
your mailbox:

-NOT ONLY from those 100 persons who have read YOUR message with your
name and address in position 4 and wish to buy your recipe for a sum of
US$2.00,

-but ALSO from the HUNDREDS, THOUSANDS and eventually HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS of people who will ALSO read the same message afterwards with
YOUR NAME & ADDRESS in position 3, then position 2 and, at last, position 1!!!

When the money begins coming to your mailbox:
-put your recipe in the self-addressed, stamped envelope provided by each
person who sent
you US$ 2.00 in cash and MAIL your recipe to the sender,
-SIT BACK and SMILE, because:
        *you will then be the owner of an HONEST, EASY and LEGAL HOME OPERATED
        BUSINESS,
        *you will know that you have HONESTLY done something SMART to achieve
        financial independence!

Actually, even if you do not want to be too optimistic
in respect of the FINAL response of your 100 READERS
consider the following figures, calculated on the basis of a response rate
limited to 15% of those 100 persons who read your message and would join
this program (quite pessimistic, don't you agree?):

STEP 1: Out of the 100 persons who received your message, ONLY FIFTEEN (15):
-send you US$2.00 (with a self addressed stamped envelope) in payment of your
recipe;
totally, you receive US$2.00 x 15 = US$30.00
-and POST THIS MESSAGE to 10 diffferent newsgroups, each message with your name
& address in
position No 3; totally 1,500 NEW READERS ARE CONTACTED (15 postings x 100
persons/newsgroup),

STEP 2: Out of the 1,500 persons contacted in step 1, ONLY 225 (that is 15% of
1500):
-send you US$2.00 (with a self addressed stamped envelope) in payment of your
recipe;
totally, you receive US$2.00 x 225 = US$ 450.00
-and POST THIS MESSAGE to 10 diffferent newsgroups, each message with your name
& address in
position No 2; totally 22,500 NEW READERS ARE CONTACTED (225 postings x 100
persons/newsgroup),

STEP 3: Out of the 22,500 persons contacted in step 2, ONLY 3,375 (that is 15%
of 22,500):
-send you US$2.00 (with a self addressed stamped envelope) in payment of your
recipe;
totally, you receive US$2.00 x 3,375 = US$ 6,750.00
-and POST THIS MESSAGE to 10 diffferent newsgroups, each message with your name
& address in
position No 1; totally 337,500 NEW READERS ARE CONTACTED (3,375 postings x 100
persons/newsgroup),

STEP 4: Out of the 337,500 persons contacted in step 3, ONLY 50,625 (that is
15% of 337,500):
-send you US$2.00 (with a self addressed stamped envelope) in payment of your
recipe;
totally, you receive US$2.00 x 50,625 = US$ 101,250.00

AND YOU HAVE REACHED YOUR GOAL!!!

Then, your name & address do not appear anymore on the postings:
it' time for the others who followed your instructions to enjoy this system and
FOR YOU to start another mailing if you wish!

You might have already received proposals for "get-rich-quick" schemes,
multi-level marketing
programs, mail-order schemes and I know that, ordinarily, we disregard those
schemes and dump
their proposals, But this time, it's different! This program really works! It
works because it's
simple and cheap: it will cost you only:
-The time to make a copy of this message and post it to 10 newsgroups,
-8 STAMPS & 8 ENVELOPES
-US$ 8.00 (US$2.00 x 4 recipes) to be sent to the 4 persons herebelow for
purchasing their
recipes.

Your total investment will be re-paid as soon as ONLY 15 persons have sent you
US$ 2.00
together with their requests for your recipe!. Have you ever dreamed of such a
small investment
for such a profitable business?

It also works because it's HONEST & LEGAL: you PURCHASE a RECIPE and you OFFER
for
purchase at a very reasonable price your own recipe to other people, the same
way some
Companies organize a mailing to introduce and sell their products or services
to the consumers.

It's LEGAL to buy a recipe and it's ALSO LEGAL to OFFER your own for SALE
THROUGH THE INTERNET.
The final number of persons who join the program does not make it illegal.

JOIN US RIGHT NOW! Be honest in every way and it will work for you as well. I
wish you every possible
success.

Very Best Regards to all.


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
List of Four Persons Willing To Sell Their Recipes For US$2.00 (Cash ONLY):
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recipe for: Dry Fried Sliced Beef and Tangerine Peel with Red Pepper
(From CHINA --Guangdong Province--) from:
Peter LAI
Address: 704-705, Sincere House, 83 Argyle Street, Mongkok, Kowloon, Hong Kong


Recipe for: Spiced Mustard Fish Curry (from Bengal) from:
Eliza Y.S. TSE
Address: 7/E Greenmont Court - Discovery Bay - Lantau Island - Hong Kong


Recipe for: Eel in Cream and Cress Sauce (from Germany) from:
Rita & Arnold Yeung
Address: 20/B Greenwood Court - Discovery Bay - Lantau Island - Hong Kong


Recipe for: Traditional Cassoulet the way we cook it in Castelnaudary (France)
from:
Jean-Claude FAVRE
Address: G.P.O. Box 4981 - Hong Kong

For those who might be interested and have the time to persue it, the following
titles cover the Tiszaezlar story:

        Eotvos, Karoly, (1842-1916)
                A nagy per; mely ezer eve folyik, s meg sincs vege.
                Budapest: Szepirodalmi konyvkiado [1968]

        This is a reprint or republication of the original work of the author.
        Eotvos was a major player in the case.


        Handler, Andrew.
                Blood libel at Tiszaeszlar.
                Boulder [Colo.] : East European Monographs; NEw York:
                Distributed by Columbia University Press, 1980.

Bob Hosh

At 08:11 PM 6/17/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:
>On Sun Jun 16 18:21:08 EDT 1996 in HUNGARY #701 Eva Balogh wrote:
>
>
>>        On April 1, Eszter Solymosi, a fourteen-year-old servant of Andras
>>Huri disappeared never to return. As it turned out, she threw herself into
>>the Tisza River, comitting suicide. Soon afterward rumors began in the
>
>Eva, could you tell us the year?  I know you don't want to imply 1996, but
>still...

        Sorry, I inadvertedly left it out. The year was 1890.

We, too, are caught between a rock and a hard place when we are trying to
decide how to treat enemies who are starving.
By feeding them we are actually helping them grow their military
potential.
By not feeding them we run the risk of adding starvation to their already
crazy list of incentives to attack their neighbors.
.....
....
Millions for defense! Not one cent for tribute?
...
Will N Korea respect us for our generosity? or will our generosity be
taken as proof of weakness and lack of resolve?.....I wonder

News from the wire services:

* Two more Southern Black churches have been burned, bringing the
  recent wave of burnings to a total of 35 in the past 18 months.
    - both churches were burned last night in Kossuth, Mississippi.
    - federal investigators continue to look into the burnings.

It is a shame that I learned about the existence of this place through an
atrocity.  However, it prompted me to ask you the following:

Does anyone know how and when this town was named Kossuth?  Do you know
of other places with the same - or Hungary-related - names anywhere in the
world?  Please share it with us.

Martha

(-badly- translated from Dutch: as it appeared in the 'de Volkskrant'   of
today)

HUNGARY GETS SINGING CONDOM

The singing condom is the latest contribution of the nation that brought
us Liszt and Bartok to the history of music. When you roll down the
rubber anticonceptive, you hear a melody. Potential users, when
purchasing one, can choose between one offering the old communist ditty
"Arise ye, Worker" and one that will treat you to - not any less to the
point - the evergreen "You sweet little dullard".
   The inventor of this as remarkable as it is comic turnaround in the
struggle against venal[?] diseases and unwanted pregnancies, Ferenc
Kovacs, has high expectations about the condom. As a modest start to his
business he has ordered the production of a hundred singing condoms. The
45-year old inventor hopes to sell them to interested visitors to his
novelties-store in Budapest.

So, you just had to look even when I warned you in the subject header,
didn't you? All I'm trying to do is figure out why my posts aren't making
it onto the list.
Sam Stowe

Ceci n'est pas une sig

F.Y.I.  The poster's name is Juhasz and mail bounces from his site.

Martha

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, JCF wrote:

snip

> READ
> THIS MESSAGE VERY CAREFULLY: it might be the beginning of a new SIGNIFICANT
> source
> of income for you: if you decide to follow these instructions, YOU CAN EARN A
S
> MUCH AS
> US$100,000.00 or more in about 30 days!
>
> IT WORKS EVERY TIME; it makes money for those who HONESTLY and STRICTLY compl
y
> with the following instructions:
>

.........snip

> It's LEGAL to buy a recipe and it's ALSO LEGAL to OFFER your own for SALE
> THROUGH THE INTERNET.
> The final number of persons who join the program does not make it illegal.

?!?  Perhaps not.  To my best knowledge, round robins/chain letters are
either illegal or strongly discouraged.   As always, particularly with
something that involves money, I'd say: BEWARE!

Martha

On Jun 18, 12:12pm, S. Bihari wrote:
> Subject: query
> News from the wire services:
>
> * Two more Southern Black churches have been burned, bringing the
>   recent wave of burnings to a total of 35 in the past 18 months.
>     - both churches were burned last night in Kossuth, Mississippi.
>     - federal investigators continue to look into the burnings.
>
> It is a shame that I learned about the existence of this place through an
> atrocity.  However, it prompted me to ask you the following:
>
> Does anyone know how and when this town was named Kossuth?  Do you know
> of other places with the same - or Hungary-related - names anywhere in the
> world?  Please share it with us.
>
> Martha
>-- End of excerpt from S. Bihari


Martha, Hungarian immigration to the United States is my specialty. When
Kossuth visited the U.S. in 1851 his popularity resulted in several places
bearing his or other Hungarian names. There is a Kossuth county in Iowa.  There
was a New Buda in Iowa also. The Vasvary Collection now in Szeged has a great
deal of information on the subject. There is a microfilm copy of the collection
at the American Hungarian Foundation in  New Brunswick, New Jersey. One of the
more interesting Hungarian  immigrant settlements was established in Louisiana
in 1896. It was called Arpadhon.

Bob Hosh

At 12:30 PM 6/18/96 +0200, Gyorgy Kadar, Gyorgy Bathori, Gyorgy Jalszovsky,
and Magda Zimanyi in a fairly lengthy letter expressed their disapproval of
the fact that a couple of passages from the FORUM were quoted in HUNGARY. I
would like to analyze this letter step by step, starting with:


>        First of all, cross reference from one of the independent
>discussion lists to another one without proper citation has usually been
>discouraged by list moderators (in moderated lists).

        What do the authors mean by "proper citation"? As far as I know the
names (pseudonyms they maybe) were given, and the texts were accurate. I
don't know how the above authors copy material on their computers, but most
of us simply use the mouse, highlight the text, and hit "Copy." This way
surely there can be no misquotations. Also, HUNGARY is not a moderated list.
Admittedly a certain person, appearing under two different names, behaved in
a way which we are not accustomed to on this list. In one instance the
person made a personal attack on Andras Kornai and the same person under a
different name hounded Eva Balogh for weeks on. He was removed from the list
of subscribers and since only subscribers can post articles, he no longer
can pollute this list. But that doesn't make HUNGARY a moderated list.

        Moreover, what does it mean "discouraged"? Surely, it doesn't mean
that it is forbidden. As the matter of fact only recently we read a great
deal about the public nature of postings, even of e-mail. The men who posted
those two articles in question gave up their rights to privacy. Anyone, at
any time, can quote these articles in full or in part. Just as members of
FORUM can quote--and they do--from HUNGARY's postings.


>Cross reference
>between lists of different working languages is especially inconvenient.

        "Inconvenient"! That is an interesting choice of words. A goodly
number of the readers of HUNGARY can read Hungarian (and some of them are
not even Hungarian-born!) and thus Hungarian texts don't cause them any
inconvenience whatsoever. As for those who can't read Hungarian, there is
the art of translation. Not inconvenient at all.

>Recently the correspondents of FORUM have been referred to and mentioned
>many times by some debatters of the HUNGARY list as extreme rightists, not
>to mention labels close to obscenity.

        Yes, some correspondents of the FORUM were labeled extreme
rightists, but I don't remember any label which can be called obscene! The
only obscenity I saw came from Arpi Rambo's *gorgeous* piece which no one
had the stomach to translate due to our inborn modesty.

>        FORUM is a non-moderated political discussion list. During
>its several years of history a great variety of topics, opinions and persons
>have appeared in this list. Obviously, in the course of debates
>one unavoidably meets dubious opinions of provocative, extreme, naive,
>etc. nature. Practice has proven, however, that such opinions have, to our
>knowledge, usually found proper answer in the FORUM.

        I must disagree that these extreme opinions "usually find proper
answer on the FORUM." We don't even have to go any further than these two
quotations in question (one from Arpi Rambo and the other from Szucs). No
one "found proper answer" to them on the FORUM. Not you,
Kadar-Bathori-Jalszovsky-Zimanyi or anyone else. Not one of you had the guts
to say: you, dear Arpi, are a vulgar, extreme, libelous person. And no one
said to Szucs: you, Szucs, are advocating the establishment of a regime
which bears suspicious resemblance to nazi Germany! Not one of you.

>        The aim of this declaration is not to attack or defend opinions
>appeared in either the HUNGARY or the FORUM list. We only wish to
>reject the idea and practice of cross references without proper citation
>and translation between two lists of different working languages like
>HUNGARY and FORUM.

        "Proper citation," hogwash! OK, if you don't like our citation, you
do the "proper citation." Maybe it will sound better!! And what about
another hogwosh: "proper translation." These writings are not writings of
Shakespeare which might cause us ordinary mortals difficulties in
translating. The translation offered to one of the two objectionable
passages was more than adequate. The other one, admittedly, would have
caused us a bit of trouble in English: the English language simply doesn't
have as many vulgar expressions as Hungarian. But do you really think that
translating "ho'he'r," as "hangman," or as "executioner," really would make
a great deal of difference in our perception of the piece in translation? I
am talking here about the untranslated piece of Arpi Rambo, in case you are
in doubt.

>The language barrier might raise obstacles to the
>proper understanding (let alone interpretation) of the content of
>postings. Indirect information might lead to misinterpretations and may
>result in generalized defaming qualifications. Such defamations may be
>insulting and offensive for all participants, including those who wish to
>debate over and discuss serious topics, without extremities or personal
>attacks.

        You talk about "defamations" which may be "insulting and offensive."
Are you unable to read? Who is insulting, who is defaming, who is offensive?
Certainly not those who called Arpi Rambo's libelious writing to other
people's attention.

>In our opinion such effect of cross reference should be avoided by
>all means.

        When the contributors to FORUM find proper ways of expressing their
political opinions in a reasonable fashion, then surely there will be no
reason to quote them as examples of extreme political views. Until then I
will quote whomever, whatever, and whenever I want to, because I consider
these extreme opinions incompatible with democracy. I, as opposed to those
so-called moderate conservatives among whom, I am sure, you count
yourselves, do raise my voice against neo-nazis, anti-semites, undemocratic
expressions in general.

>We will urge the writers and readers of the FORUM  list to do
>their best (and, of course, we also try to do our best) in avoiding
>generalized defamations resulting from irresponsible cross-references with
>regard to any list of the Internet, including HUNGARY, and we would
>be glad to experience the same kind of abstinence in the HUNGARY list with
>regard to the FORUM list.

        The FORUM, as you mentioned, is not a moderated list and therefore
you can "urge the writers and readers of the FORUM . . . to do their best .
. . in avoding . . . irresponsible cross-references," but your urging has no
actual force whatsoever. And knowing the cast of characters on the FORUM I
very much doubt that you will be able to convince them not to quote,
interpret and misinterpret, other people's writings on other lists. It is
enough to read today's FORUM to see that your "urging" will fall on deaf ears.

        Eva Balogh

>In article >,
 says...
>>
>>Quoting Agnes Heringer
>>
>>>As far as I am concerned, the cultural difference cannot be bridged.
>>
>>Dear Agnes:
>>
>>If I were made to believe this statement to be a fact, I would truly
>>consider the threat of humanity to be in danger of extinction...  This,
>is
>>an exteremely serious statement, one which I wholeheartedly disagree
>with!
>>I give humanity  more credit than this.... and have, and and exercised
>it,
>>and so far, it has not yet let me down.
>>
>>Now, if you were to say that religious differences cannot be bridged, I
>>would give your thought pattern the necessary leaway it deserves... but
>>cultural?... No bloody way!  I repeat,.... I give humanity far more
>credit
>>that that!  Sorry Agnes, your statement is truly "out to lunch" at least
>in
>>my opinion!
>>
>>Regards,
>>Aniko
>
>Aniko, I came with my family to Canada in 1963. I have worked 30 years in
>Canadian companies.  So did my husband.  Maybe it is our fault, however,
>all my friends and acquaintances - unless intermarried - are in the same
>boot.  In all these years, I had one non-Hungarian girlfriend, who
>happened to be British (European culture) and repatriated 18 years ago.
>There is one Canadian couple (I used to work with the husband) with whom
>we occasionally get together.  As I mentioned in my note, that does not
>mean that we do not get on with each other - I have terrific rapport with
>my son-in-laws - but simply, we are on another plane culturally.
>I was 30 when I came to Canada, but I have friends who were
>18 and have the same problem.  Incidentally, those who emigrated to the
>US, fare a little bit better, I am told.
>
>Regards, Agnes
>
>Agnes:somewhere something went wrong.I came to Canada in 57 all by
myself.It is ture that in the beginning my free time was spent with other
Hungarians,but somehow I managed to marry a french Canadian girl,and this
brought us a Son.They both live now in the Us.We had more hungarian friends
then canadian,this is true,but I can not understand what "cultural
differences"you can find beetween two human beings.Ok.so you like opera,I
like Frank Sinatra and big band.Just wondering how much effort if any you
pur into understandung the Canadian "Culture"?
I live now in Toronto and I hardly have any Hungarian friends,most of them
past away,and I sociolise with canadians more then ever before.We both have
our respect for each other,and mutualy aggree or disagree on subject.
Agnes,I wish you could tell me what you find so different beetween the 2
cultures,and then I might agree with you.
Andy Kozma.

At 12:12 PM 6/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>News from the wire services:
>
>* Two more Southern Black churches have been burned, bringing the
>  recent wave of burnings to a total of 35 in the past 18 months.
>    - both churches were burned last night in Kossuth, Mississippi.
>    - federal investigators continue to look into the burnings.
>
>It is a shame that I learned about the existence of this place through an
>atrocity.  However, it prompted me to ask you the following:
>
>Does anyone know how and when this town was named Kossuth?  Do you know
>of other places with the same - or Hungary-related - names anywhere in the
>world?  Please share it with us.
>
>Martha
>

        There is a street in New Haven (Connecticut) named Kossuth Street.
It was named such after 1851 when Kossuth visited New Haven and made a
ringing speech on the Green. There is another Kossuth Street in Bridgeport,
Connecticut. I am not sure when that street was named at the time of
Kossuth's American visit or later by Hungarian immigrants. Bridgeport was a
center of late nineteenth-century Hungarian immigration. So was Wallingford,
Connecticut. In both localities there are still many Hungarian names in the
telephone book.

        By the way, there is a book, published shortly after Kossuth's visit
to the United States, in which one can find his itinerary and the speeches
he made.

        Eva Balogh

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:

> At 12:12 PM 6/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >News from the wire services:
> >
> >* Two more Southern Black churches have been burned, bringing the
> >  recent wave of burnings to a total of 35 in the past 18 months.
> >    - both churches were burned last night in Kossuth, Mississippi.
> >    - federal investigators continue to look into the burnings.
> >
> >It is a shame that I learned about the existence of this place through an
> >atrocity.  However, it prompted me to ask you the following:
> >
> >Does anyone know how and when this town was named Kossuth?  Do you know
> >of other places with the same - or Hungary-related - names anywhere in the
> >world?  Please share it with us.
> >
> >Martha
> >
>
>         There is a street in New Haven (Connecticut) named Kossuth Street.
> It was named such after 1851 when Kossuth visited New Haven and made a
> ringing speech on the Green. There is another Kossuth Street in Bridgeport,
> Connecticut. I am not sure when that street was named at the time of
> Kossuth's American visit or later by Hungarian immigrants. Bridgeport was a
> center of late nineteenth-century Hungarian immigration. So was Wallingford,
> Connecticut. In both localities there are still many Hungarian names in the
> telephone book.
>
>         By the way, there is a book, published shortly after Kossuth's visit
> to the United States, in which one can find his itinerary and the speeches
> he made.
>
>         Eva Balogh
>
There is a small village, Kossuth, in NW Ohio.

Louis Elteto

Dear Agnes:

Before I address the rest of your post, first and foremost I would like to
apologize for the "out to lunch" comment - which was highly unnecessary.  A
tad more thought could have found a more appropriately phrased sentence
which would have served to relay my feelings equally.  Sorry.

At 08:49 PM 6/17/96 -0300, you wrote:
Ill snip my stuff...

>Aniko, I came with my family to Canada in 1963. I have worked 30 years in
>Canadian companies.  So did my husband.  Maybe it is our fault, however,
>all my friends and acquaintances - unless intermarried

I am also intermarried, Agnes; but also I run an international business; and
am constantly faced with the very issue of cultural differences.  My past
experience has proved your statement to be 99% wrong... for which I'm truly
glad .... It is also just  _my_ reality.  For sixteen years running... at
least....And for ket filler's worth, it too, deserves some thought.... yes...?

 - are in the same
>boot.  In all these years, I had one non-Hungarian girlfriend, who
>happened to be British (European culture) and repatriated 18 years ago.
This is a statement, that says an awful lot Agnes, ....think about it...

>There is one Canadian couple (I used to work with the husband) with whom
>we occasionally
Occassionally does not necessarily mean, that you are truly getting/giving
the sort of exchange required to learn of another's cultures.  Quite the
contrary indeed.  It is my opinion that frequency with various cultures is
imperative in order to develop an open mind with respect -  which I consider
to be step number one towards bridging any gap.

 get together.  As I mentioned in my note, that does not
>mean that we do not get on with each other - I have terrific rapport with
>my son-in-laws - but simply, we are on another plane culturally.
And, I find this extemely sad.... your son in law, ought to be open and
willing to learning his new family's culture likewise you his own.... then,
is when bridging begins....who goes first, is the real question which pops
into my mind?

>I was 30 when I came to Canada, but I have friends who were
>18 and have the same problem.  Incidentally, those who emigrated to the
>US, fare a little bit better, I am told.
I emigrated to Canada in 1967 , and would fit into your friend's category
more than yours.  I have only experienced the fact and pleasure that most of
our friends, business associates and acquiantances, have gone out our their
way to learn more of my traditions...while I do likewise...(and, I have
minimal contact with Hungarians, other than my trips to Hungary)  My daily
contacts are with Australia, Africa, Asia,  Canada. Europe, US, South
America, most of the Middle East, UK, Scandinavian Countries, Benelux
countries, ..... I might have left one or two out... and the above list is
by no means in any sort of preference other than my memory of recent
encounters dictates....

In closing, your statement still leaves me very negative; I don't for one
minute want to be made believe that you might even be remotely right!
Acknowledging your statement to be even remotely correct, in my mind would
eradicate all the progress we humans have enjoyed to date with respect to
our differences.  Which would be very sad indeed.

Best regards,
Aniko

Let's try to understand each other a little more and accept that each
migrant experience is different.

I feel sorry for Agnes Heringer's problems which I am sure were heartfelt.
There is not need to question, let alone judge her for them.

When faced with a different culture, one always needs to adapt.  Depending
on the perceived distance to bridge, it may not always be possible to bridge
the distance.  Note that I am talking about perceptions: it is all on the
mind.  Some people have an unfavourable first experience that makes them
clam up, others are introverted that makes reaching out difficult.  Yet
others find certain aspects of the different culture too offputting to
want to make acquaintance with other aspects of it.  More fortunate people,
and I count myself among them, relish cultural differences and even seek
them out beyond the level of tasting different food.

Neither are cultural differences a function of geographical distance.
I find the general temperament of Mediterraneans and Latin Americans closest
to my own and I click them better/sooner that with Northern Europeans, Anglo
Saxons in particular wherever in their diaspora.  There are exceptions even
from that general experience: the Northern English I encountered I perceive
to be closer to Mediterraneans than to other English.

And sometimes very distant cultures can give rewards for trying to bridge
gaps.  The cultural experience I profited from most is that in Papua New
Guinea.  Similarly, cultures that one would expect to be quite close to
one's own can have surprises: while a signle man in Australia I found the
body language and nuances of the mating game especially different from
that on the Continent in general and Hungary in particular.  It is very
easy to cause offence if one uses old assumptions about the meaning of
apparently same gestures.

In the end, when faced with a new culture, there is nothing more to do
on the ground than to try to listen and see before one's own action, move
cautiously initially, accept the differences and try to find enjoyment in
them.  It also helps to do some research beforehand.  For example, the
extreme reluctance of many South-East Asians to utter a straight NO must
be noted, along with their problems associated with losing face.

George Antony

It is also called Quercus robur, if that helps.


In article >, "Joseph U. & Sharon W. Hill"
<"http://candles"@community.net> wrote:

>I was asked by local barrel maker in the Napa Valley to act as a
>translator in his dealings with a barrel supplier in Hungary. I got a fax
>that has a phrase that I can not translate: "jo' mino"se'gu" _kocsa'nyos_
>to"lgy". I know what "kocsa'ny" is on a tomato plant, but not on an oak
>tree. If anyone can help me I would appreciate you reply to my e-mail:
.
>Ha'la's Ko"szo"nettel
>Jo'zsi

--
Best regards,

Peter
)

Hi---


Does anyone know how to subscribe to an e-mail conference dealing
exclusively with Hungarian history (especially the 1956 Revolution)?
Please let me know.Koszonom szepen.


Johanna Granville
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA

Kedves Sam!

(What is the Hungarian for *Sam*, anyway?)

At 08:33 18/06/96 -0400, you wrote:
>So, you just had to look even when I warned you in the subject header,
>didn't you?

Yup. Always was nosy.

 All I'm trying to do is figure out why my posts aren't making
>it onto the list.

OK, I wrote a snappy response to Novak ur's commentary to Balogh Eva, and
despite umpteen attempts to post it, edit it, and post it again, nothing,
nada, no good at all. Are we being secretly censored? It can't be Hugh,
because he's incognito in Czehia. Maybe they've discovered that you're a
Democrat and I'm a Republican, and they are trying to rein in our radical
views ;-))

Bob Dole lives! (. . . I think)

TTFN,

Janka
(My Hungarian Alias)

>Sam Stowe
>
>Ceci n'est pas une sig

(I'll bite.)
>
>

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Louis Elteto wrote:

> There is a small village, Kossuth, in NW Ohio.

There is?  My Rand McNally Road Atlas doesn't show it.  Can you tell me
the closest community to it?


Martha

We, active participants in the debates of the FORUM (HIX) list of
mostly Hungarian language, have seen lately that some topics and persons
of the FORUM have been mentioned, in some cases cited and qualified
(usually in a negative sense) in the GWU-based HUNGARY list of English
language. One of us (kadargyorgy), being a subscriber of the HUNGARY list,
volunteered to forward our common opinion to the readers of this list.
        First of all, cross reference from one of the independent
discussion lists to another one without proper citation has usually been
discouraged by list moderators (in moderated lists). Cross reference
between lists of different working languages is especially inconvenient.
Recently the correspondents of FORUM have been referred to and mentioned
many times by some debatters of the HUNGARY list as extreme rightists, not
to mention labels close to obscenity.
        FORUM is a non-moderated political discussion list. During
its several years of history a great variety of topics, opinions and persons
have appeared in this list. Obviously, in the course of debates
one unavoidably meets dubious opinions of provocative, extreme, naive,
etc. nature. Practice has proven, however, that such opinions have, to our
knowledge, usually found proper answer in the FORUM.
        The aim of this declaration is not to attack or defend opinions
appeared in either the HUNGARY or the FORUM list. We only wish to
reject the idea and practice of cross references without proper citation
and translation between two lists of different working languages like
HUNGARY and FORUM. The language barrier might raise obstacles to the
proper understanding (let alone interpretation) of the content of
postings. Indirect information might lead to misinterpretations and may
result in generalized defaming qualifications. Such defamations may be
insulting and offensive for all participants, including those who wish to
debate over and discuss serious topics, without extremities or personal
attacks. In our opinion such effect of cross reference should be avoided by
all means. Any opinion about postings and persons appeared in a particular
list finds its best place for discussion in that same list.
        We will urge the writers and readers of the FORUM  list to do
their best (and, of course, we also try to do our best) in avoiding
generalized defamations resulting from irresponsible cross-references with
regard to any list of the Internet, including HUNGARY, and we would
be glad to experience the same kind of abstinence in the HUNGARY list with
regard to the FORUM list.

                Bathori Gyorgy          
                Jalsovszky Gyorgy       
                Kadar Gyorgy            
                Zimanyi Magda           

MEHET?          kadargy